Transcript:

Draft transcript

 

 

 

[we are re-transcribing to ensure accuracy and transparency.]

 

 

Other material supplied: 

 

1. To the Premiers of Australia

 

2. To the Prime Minister of Australia

 

3. "On the manner of proceeding in cases of solicitation"

 

4. See also Archbishops’ chaplain behind bars at last

 

Draft transcript

JohnB: Sexual abuse of children by clergy

Voice: Right

JohnB: I felt that err

Voice: Yep

JohnB: Its a fairly important social thing that really needs to be addressed

Voice: Hmmm

JohnB: I thought that might. I'm not too sure whether you folk are
accustomed or aware of that document. Its a public document. Its been
out since 1962.

Voice: Umhh

Minister of Police: Can you leave with that, a copy of that with us

JohnB: I. Yes I did

Voice: [indecipherable]

JohnB: No. No. No. Thats fine. I would like you to read that and give me
some sort of response as to what your thoughts are on it. I'll wait
while you do that.

Voice: Yeah

Voice: Yeah

Minister of Police: Well, yeah we, we [indecipherable], we[indecipherable]

JohnB: I understand that, I'll wait. It is 3 or 4 minutes reading

Voice: Yeah

Voice: Yeah yeah

Minister of Police: Look I think I think maybe the best thing for us to
do initially is to try and determine the specific issue you wanted to
talk to us about here today so

JohnB: That (pointing to documentation)

Minister of Police: I gather ther's been a number you there have been a
number of complaints you lodged that you asked to be investigated is
that the case

JohnB: Firstly Minister I came to talk about this issue

Minister: Right I [indecipherable] I lets have a quick look at it then

JohnB: The other issue is

Commissioner of Police: (check ID speaker) Its just the one page you
want us to read not the whole thing

JohnB: Yeah

Voice: Rightio, OK

JohnB: I am not sure if you are familiar with the rest of the document.
I can give you a run-down on it if you like.

{check following against the photocopy to ensure it is the correct
version supplied}

Document reads:

GOD's  LAWS

The law of God as designed and effectively implemented to ensure the
protection pedophile priests and other sexual abusers across the globe
as taught for 40+ years through all areas of Catholic Education,
Catholic Health, Catholic Charity, Catholic Community, Catholic Social
Justice and other Catholic systems and also through services provided as
an extension of Government to the community of Australia through
Catholic systems such as Carelink paid for by taxpayer funds and also
preached from the pulpits of the Catholic Church across the globe.The
protection  and enablement of pedophilia and the sexual abuse of
children in any form is a moral hazard.

This undeniable moral hazard has been in place since at least 1962.
History shows that this corruption extends much further back in the
history of the Catholic Church.


This defines what has been secret policy for 40+ years within the Church
and its results are evident in all areas of our lives.

This defines those everyday Church policies we hear of "Protecting the
good name of the Church", "Being a good Catholic", "Doing God's work"
and the ever present "Look at all the good work we do" (as some form of
payment for the global crimes against humanity); "It was not only us, it
was the Government as well", "If only we have more support and money
from the Government we would be able to do more of God's work". Point
out St Vinnies as a leading example of how the handing out of donated
second hand furniture to the unfortunate is also some form of payment to
society for these crimes against humanity and the sexual abuse of
children both here and in every country where the Catholic Churchexists.

Quite simply a moral hazard.

To attempt to call it anything other simply establishes the depth and
the degree of ones own personal denial and deception - that too forms a
part of the cover up of the Catholic Church through the manipulation and
deception of its followers over generations - this is a moral hazard for
the rest of our society; it is also the responsibility of your
Government and your role in it to protect the people of this State
against such atrocities.

Our Government becomes a moral hazard to its people when it fails to
protect its people from such a moral hazard.


Commissioner of Police: Can I [indecipherable] do you think that things
have have improved

JohnB: No

Voice: You ar [indecipherable]

JohnB: I hmm I butt up against this from the other side of the fence to
you folk and I will tell you definately no

Commissioner of Police: Hmmm [indecipherable] Mr McGovern??? has been
here as long as I have. I've been in the Police for over 40 years now
??? and I and truly to me it has improved enormously. Enormously to the
point some of the ways people I think I think there is a greater public
awareness today umm and if children are victims they will say something
to whether its a parents or someone they can trust

JohnB: There is some truth but there um don't mind me Bob but I
understand what you are saying but that does not address this type of
issue. The relevance of this to society

Commissioner of Police: We believe its terribly important ... awareness
of that today too .. been the subject of any abuse and I[indecipherable]

JohnB: I dont think Bob that you and I are talking about the same thing
right here

Commissioner of Police: {}

JohnB: Well, this is a matter that stretches across society, its a Human
Rights issue OK and it goes to 40 years of cover up of the sexual abuse
of children by clergy across the world. OK. And during those 40 years as
this tells you we've had the education system, all of those things in
play as well as the complicit involvement of the Government. Now, my
question is How long. How are you going to respond to that to turn that
around.

Voice: (may be Minister) Yeah right look I

Commissioner of Police: Again I think the Government is doing a lot of
things. There is an education, umm there is a far far greater awareness
of this issue in the courts umm the legislation has been changed to
enble children to give evidence as an alternative to being interviewed
seperately video recording police are much more aware umm in my I really
do think that all of this is turned around.  We started change ..

JohnB: Oh I. I'm

Commissioner of Police: Ten years ago ..

JohnB: Yep

Commissioner of Police: What happened was there was huge stockpile a
huge spike in volume .. report .. came about because because ..

JohnB: Can I interrupt you Bob and just take you back to. I am not sure
whether you are grasping what the implications of this are because you
are talking about evidence giving which is err individual circumstances

Commissioner of Police: Mmm, mmm

JohnB: and yes I understand that and we can discuss issues like the
statute of limitations and a whole range of other things and age
appropriateness in the witness err or evidence situation those things
don't. They emenate from this they don't address this.

Commissioner ??? Let me ask you this

JohnB: Yeah

Voice: What do you want us to do

JohnB: I find I believe that you have an obligation to no longer trade
with an entity that's in this state

Voice: Catholic Church

Minister: So no longer trade I'm sorry

JohnB: What's the problem with that

Voice: ...

Voice: Is that what you are asking us to do .. not trade with the
Catholic church

JohnB: I believe that's where your responsibility lies

Voice: Sure

Minister: ?? We'll we'll take that on board

JohnB: OK

Voice: Anything else that you would like us to do

JohnB: No. That was thats pretty well what I say.

JohnB: Now I did say that I have a number of other

Voice ... theres more ...

JohnB: data and information and each of those

JohnB: Let me

Commissioner: Is that included in here

JohnB: No No No This is just one document.

JohnB: Are you aware of what this document is

Voice: No I'm not

JohnB: Aware of its existence

Minister: No No we havent seen it

JohnB: OK Its called err "On the manner of proceding in cases of
solicitation"

Commissioner: Mmmm

Voice: Yeah

JohnB: It was distributed to bishops around the world in 1962. Umm the
author was Ratzinger, the current Pope

Voice: Mmmm

JohnB: OK this goes into err matters as to how to keep the

Voices: [indecipherable]

JohnB: sexual abuse of children a secret.

JohnB: It also goes in and shows under Canon law how it is legitimate
for that a good practicing Catholic to lie if the good name of the
church is threatened or etc

JohnB: ??? This. That's what this document is

Minister: OK

Voice: [indecipherable]

Voice: (speaker with glasses): If that's 40 years old is does the
Catholic church still adhere to that 40 year old document or is therenew

JohnB: Its never rescinded it

Voice: (speaker with glasses): New policy or procedures in the Catholic
church

JohnB: They've never, never addressed the. The first addressing of that
um has been the apology by the Pope in the United States to the people
over there followed by the apology here

Voice: (speaker with glasses): ... so ... maybe its more a case of maybe
the Catholic church is who you should be talking to  rather than the
Government in [indecipherable] their

JohnB: Ooooh I think somebody has to talk with the with the church in
this regard Umm because this forms a moral hazard

Voice (Minister?): So John apart from this particular document is there
anything else you wanted to specifically draw our attention to

JohnB: There's much more that follows on from that and yes there are

Voice (Minister?): OK OK well look we've got the document obviously and
we can have a look at that and thanks for taking the time to present it
to us

JohnB: OK

Voice: (speaker with glasses): ... some contact details

JohnB: Sure sure

JohnB: Umm I'm not sure whether, while I've thinking I do have these
others. That one I presented to the Premiers of the of the country inMarch

Voice: Yeah

Voice: OK

JohnB: And um let me see I think I had one that I I. Is that thing
include the one to the Prime Minister. No

Voice: (speaker with glasses): I I can get that off you  ...

JohnB: The Prime Minister and the Governor General or Attorney Generals
of each State and Territory

Voice: ... if you go home

Voice: There it is

Voice: Yes

Voice: [indecipherable]

JohnB: Yep

Voice: OK

JohnB: Yep

Voice: Righto Thank you very much

Voice: Nice to meet you Mr Brown

Voice: Thanks, Bye